Comments on: Mobile, Web 2.0, Hype, Reality, and Openness http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/2006/10/27/mobile-web-20-hype-reality-and-openness/ Ripping mobility from the clutches of telecom Fri, 21 Nov 2008 01:26:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Ajit Jaokar http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/2006/10/27/mobile-web-20-hype-reality-and-openness/#comment-41716 Ajit Jaokar Thu, 23 Nov 2006 23:40:01 +0000 http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/?p=221#comment-41716 Hi Mike Great post. see my thoughts at http://opengardensblog.futuretext.com/archives/2006/11/mobile_ajax_mor_1.html Still work in progress! kind rgds Ajit Hi Mike
Great post. see my thoughts at http://opengardensblog.futuretext.com/archives/2006/11/mobile_ajax_mor_1.html

Still work in progress!

kind rgds
Ajit

]]> By: Michael Molin http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/2006/10/27/mobile-web-20-hype-reality-and-openness/#comment-39536 Michael Molin Tue, 14 Nov 2006 14:41:14 +0000 http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/?p=221#comment-39536 Hi Mike, I just wanted to show my project in relation to Mobile 2.0 Cell Computer Project http://geocities.com/gene_technics Regards, Hi Mike,

I just wanted to show my project in relation to Mobile 2.0

Cell Computer Project

http://geocities.com/gene_technics

Regards,

]]> By: miker http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/2006/10/27/mobile-web-20-hype-reality-and-openness/#comment-38438 miker Fri, 10 Nov 2006 02:18:55 +0000 http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/?p=221#comment-38438 Excellent, having support for it in the Nokia OSS browser would be great. I have an E61 and I've been fooling around with the Nokia OSS browser and AJAX sites. Mostly just noting the spectacular ways in which it fails. I'll keep looking for an update though. Excellent, having support for it in the Nokia OSS browser would be great. I have an E61 and I’ve been fooling around with the Nokia OSS browser and AJAX sites. Mostly just noting the spectacular ways in which it fails. I’ll keep looking for an update though.

]]> By: martin frid-nielsen http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/2006/10/27/mobile-web-20-hype-reality-and-openness/#comment-38420 martin frid-nielsen Fri, 10 Nov 2006 01:01:49 +0000 http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/?p=221#comment-38420 Mike, I think your pulse should start moving faster, currently we see Opera and Nokia (OSS browser) being at a level where they can render (at least some level of) Ajax the same way. Especially having Nokia jump on this bandwagon is important, from what i understand they will be shipping something like 60M E61 hand-sets this year. I dont see Openwave and Access being much behind, i estimate that by Q2 '07 all of these browsers will be very much at the same level. The other thing that's exciting here is this concept of 'smart-phones for the masses', clearly mobile applications on a device like the E61 make a lot more sense than on a Razr, so when you combine the rapid deployment of these, now cheaper, more smart-phone like devices (other examples are Moto-Q and T-Mobile Dash) with mobile ajax, you have a strong foundation for truly useful mobile applications. Mike, I think your pulse should start moving faster, currently we see Opera and Nokia (OSS browser) being at a level where they can render (at least some level of) Ajax the same way. Especially having Nokia jump on this bandwagon is important, from what i understand they will be shipping something like 60M E61 hand-sets this year. I dont see Openwave and Access being much behind, i estimate that by Q2 ‘07 all of these browsers will be very much at the same level. The other thing that’s exciting here is this concept of ’smart-phones for the masses’, clearly mobile applications on a device like the E61 make a lot more sense than on a Razr, so when you combine the rapid deployment of these, now cheaper, more smart-phone like devices (other examples are Moto-Q and T-Mobile Dash) with mobile ajax, you have a strong foundation for truly useful mobile applications.

]]> By: miker http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/2006/10/27/mobile-web-20-hype-reality-and-openness/#comment-37938 miker Wed, 08 Nov 2006 03:35:29 +0000 http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/?p=221#comment-37938 Hey Martin, thanks for leaving the comment, great to see you at the event yesterday. One of the main questions I still have relates to "moving away from having to hardcode for many different devices" How does AJAX solve this? When using AJAX you're still relying on HTML, Javascript, CSS, and quite frequently DHTML in order to get the application displayed. Unless ajax is inherently tied to a single browser platform it will still suffer from the same problems that exist currently (inconsistent or non-existant CSS styling, different tag sets, implementation quirks, etc) Does mobile AJAX include some kind of internal device adaptation? I agree totally with the distribution of mobile applications being in need of major updates. I would just rather see the base issues fixed before trying to push out new technology as well. What would move my pulse in terms of mobile ajax? The same mobile ajax application with exactly the same markup being displayed using two different browsers. Otherwise I'm going to look at the individual mobile ajax efforts the same way I looked at ActiveX with IE, a thinly veiled effort to subvert an otherwise open programming model in attempt to own the market. Hey Martin, thanks for leaving the comment, great to see you at the event yesterday. One of the main questions I still have relates to “moving away from having to hardcode for many different devices” How does AJAX solve this? When using AJAX you’re still relying on HTML, Javascript, CSS, and quite frequently DHTML in order to get the application displayed. Unless ajax is inherently tied to a single browser platform it will still suffer from the same problems that exist currently (inconsistent or non-existant CSS styling, different tag sets, implementation quirks, etc) Does mobile AJAX include some kind of internal device adaptation?

I agree totally with the distribution of mobile applications being in need of major updates. I would just rather see the base issues fixed before trying to push out new technology as well.

What would move my pulse in terms of mobile ajax? The same mobile ajax application with exactly the same markup being displayed using two different browsers. Otherwise I’m going to look at the individual mobile ajax efforts the same way I looked at ActiveX with IE, a thinly veiled effort to subvert an otherwise open programming model in attempt to own the market.

]]> By: martin frid-nielsen http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/2006/10/27/mobile-web-20-hype-reality-and-openness/#comment-37913 martin frid-nielsen Wed, 08 Nov 2006 00:36:54 +0000 http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/?p=221#comment-37913 Hi Mike - First , thanks for organizing such a great conference yesterday, Mobile 2.0 is one of these rare events where you get the real global movers and shakers together to discuss where the industry is going. On your comments about Mobile Ajax, I think that Mobile Ajax is actually quite underhyped as a technology platform. It offers great promise for the mobile industry to establish a standard for how we approach application development and bring good usability forward, moving away from the need of having to hardcode for so many different devices. Having been a user of Mobile Ajax for some time, I will say that 'its still early days' and we do often see the term misused as a marketing term. To me, its sorta-like where CSS or DHTML was in 2000 or so, fortunately with Moore's law and other accelerators we will not have wait very long to see this making a real impact on the usability and distribution of mobile applications. Hi Mike - First , thanks for organizing such a great conference yesterday, Mobile 2.0 is one of these rare events where you get the real global movers and shakers together to discuss where the industry is going.
On your comments about Mobile Ajax, I think that Mobile Ajax is actually quite underhyped as a technology platform. It offers great promise for the mobile industry to establish a standard for how we approach application development and bring good usability forward, moving away from the need of having to hardcode for so many different devices. Having been a user of Mobile Ajax for some time, I will say that ‘its still early days’ and we do often see the term misused as a marketing term. To me, its sorta-like where CSS or DHTML was in 2000 or so, fortunately with Moore’s law and other accelerators we will not have wait very long to see this making a real impact on the usability and distribution of mobile applications.

]]> By: miker http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/2006/10/27/mobile-web-20-hype-reality-and-openness/#comment-36374 miker Mon, 30 Oct 2006 15:25:47 +0000 http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/?p=221#comment-36374 Actually, the full version of Opera (at least the S60 full version, I haven't tried others), has had XMLHttpRequest support for a while now: http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/?p=69 It's definitely interesting, but I'm not sure how useful it is. If you're coming from the mobile end of things, you're already probably doing some device adaptation and here's another feature you can hook in. But I tend to think of mobile web in the context of web and not mobile, and in that sense someone who's used to having some sort of async support available will find they have minimal support in a browser that most people don't have on their phone yet. Just doesn't get them any closer to what they're looking for. Actually, the full version of Opera (at least the S60 full version, I haven’t tried others), has had XMLHttpRequest support for a while now:

http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/?p=69

It’s definitely interesting, but I’m not sure how useful it is. If you’re coming from the mobile end of things, you’re already probably doing some device adaptation and here’s another feature you can hook in. But I tend to think of mobile web in the context of web and not mobile, and in that sense someone who’s used to having some sort of async support available will find they have minimal support in a browser that most people don’t have on their phone yet. Just doesn’t get them any closer to what they’re looking for.

]]> By: adrian cuthbert http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/2006/10/27/mobile-web-20-hype-reality-and-openness/#comment-36216 adrian cuthbert Sun, 29 Oct 2006 17:47:40 +0000 http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/?p=221#comment-36216 Clearly expecting mobile AJAX to somehow make existing web sites fundamentally more accessible on mobile devices is naive. But mobile AJAX does have the potential to alleviate some peculiarly mobile barriers. All the more reason to be disappointed by the current notion of mobile AJAX which, as you say, seems to do little more than connect Javascript and DHTML. Where is support for XMLHttpRequest? The ability to fetch minor page updates in the background could really benefit some mobile apps. Not only does it mean less data is being sent back and forth but also the phone has less work to do re-parsing and rendering an entire page. I'm not saying such a thing is easy, nor does it address the latency issues, but ultimately it would provide a better integration environment than having everybody resort to downloadable clients. Clearly expecting mobile AJAX to somehow make existing web sites fundamentally more accessible on mobile devices is naive. But mobile AJAX does have the potential to alleviate some peculiarly mobile barriers. All the more reason to be disappointed by the current notion of mobile AJAX which, as you say, seems to do little more than connect Javascript and DHTML.

Where is support for XMLHttpRequest? The ability to fetch minor page updates in the background could really benefit some mobile apps. Not only does it mean less data is being sent back and forth but also the phone has less work to do re-parsing and rendering an entire page.

I’m not saying such a thing is easy, nor does it address the latency issues, but ultimately it would provide a better integration environment than having everybody resort to downloadable clients.

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